Well Done Christy. Discussion over at DCP
Hey Senator McCain, About Vietnam...
(Ed note: Christy submitted this letter as a foundation to discuss war crimes and why we as a society can't seem to discuss this without being called unpatriotic. We had an interesting chain of emails as a result, and she or I will post those when we can.)
Hey Senator McCain, About Vietnam...
Hello Senator! Just for context, I would like you to know I was not born until 1973, decidedly one of the last years of the Vietnam War, and no, I do not have any living memory of it occurring. I feel grateful to have missed it actually.
However, I am writing to you today in the hopes you could finally settle a few questions I have been asking about Vietnam since my childhood, and for over 30 years now, I have yet to receive any answers. They are not rhetorical questions, nor are they meant to be redundant, yet simply no one will or can provide an actual answer for them. I was hoping you could.
Why did We kill 3 million or so Vietnamese ? What did they die for? Why did over 58,000 of our young men and women die there with them? And can you name one single benefit our nation gained for it? Even just one will do.
Pretty much everyone I have met born after 1973 would really like an answer to these questions. After all these years, it would be nice to finally have answers. But most are too afraid to ask them, because they will be attacked just for asking. For daring to ask, they will be instantly smeared as 'unpatriotic', 'ungrateful', 'unAmerican'.
Why would I ask...? Well, because someone finally should. Why would I ask you? Well, because you were there to help kill them. I know I will be considered offensive for daring to ask, but I figured if you could go over there to help kill them, you would at least know why they had to die. If you can handle torture and a rifle, then surely you should be able to handle these questions easily enough.
I understand you were tortured, and used as Vietcong propaganda for years, but, believe me when I say Sir, that you gave up info to 'the enemy' is completely forgivable. They tortured you. They tortured you because you were sent from all the way around the world, to kill them.
Can you please tell us again why it was you were supposed to be killing them? Because honestly, none of our history books have yet to give a full and rational explanation, and no living person seems to know either. I thought you would, since you speak of it so often.
Now, perhaps I should go ask John Kerry these questions, because he was there as well, also helping to kill these people. And by all accounts, he killed many of them, and, like you, was awarded numerous medals for the whole experience of going over there to kill them for reasons that are still unclear. I would Like Mr. Kerry to know I would welcome his input as well, providing he can actually answer the questions and not divert and dodge behind taboos and pretend I am the offensive one for even asking.
It could be that I am offensive for even asking, but the truth is, I have never killed anyone, nor participated in a mass killing for reasons that can not be understood. You can claim to be the reason I am allowed the freedom to ask , but you will have to prove immediately after doing so that the Vietnamese were capable of taking away such freedoms from me in the first place.
You could question my patriotism, as so many will, instead of answering the questions, but, I have read and understand the United States Constitution so my patriotism is demonstrably stronger than 99.6% of our citizens who have not. In fact, I believe it more patriotic to ask why, then to blindly follow orders and kill people for not one iota of gain or even for a rational reason.
But, for whatever your questions are about my motives, or my ideals, the questions I asked still remain and will remain until someone answers them. What did our nation kill 3 million Vietnamese for? And why exactly did 58,000 of our own die with them?
Tell us why you were willing to kill them. Tell us why they had to be killed. Without lies or talking points, please. Did I mention it must be rational answers, or else they will not be considered answers?
The ones who came after Vietnam have been constantly put off with so many excuses and false spins on Vietnam, the shame of it has become a total joke to those of us whom were supposed to inherit it without question. What the prior generations involved did not ever consider is that anyone born after Vietnam has not one single reason to continue the lies and lame justifications that have been presented in place of actual answers. We are not responsible for the lies began before our births. The ones involved in them are responsible, even now, to this day.
If you can answer these questions, please do. Finally bring to us an understanding of what it is that you are so celebrated for. Make us understand what was so worth being willing to kill or die for. Let us examine the reasons now, before another generation is forced to inherit the confusion and shame of so many unanswered questions.
With Respect
C. Cole
P. S. While you are at it, can you also finally answer the question of weather or not Vietnam was in fact one giant 'war crime' ? Because other countries constantly refer to it as a US war crime, even now, 30 years later.
Hey Senator McCain, About Vietnam...
Hello Senator! Just for context, I would like you to know I was not born until 1973, decidedly one of the last years of the Vietnam War, and no, I do not have any living memory of it occurring. I feel grateful to have missed it actually.
However, I am writing to you today in the hopes you could finally settle a few questions I have been asking about Vietnam since my childhood, and for over 30 years now, I have yet to receive any answers. They are not rhetorical questions, nor are they meant to be redundant, yet simply no one will or can provide an actual answer for them. I was hoping you could.
Why did We kill 3 million or so Vietnamese ? What did they die for? Why did over 58,000 of our young men and women die there with them? And can you name one single benefit our nation gained for it? Even just one will do.
Pretty much everyone I have met born after 1973 would really like an answer to these questions. After all these years, it would be nice to finally have answers. But most are too afraid to ask them, because they will be attacked just for asking. For daring to ask, they will be instantly smeared as 'unpatriotic', 'ungrateful', 'unAmerican'.
Why would I ask...? Well, because someone finally should. Why would I ask you? Well, because you were there to help kill them. I know I will be considered offensive for daring to ask, but I figured if you could go over there to help kill them, you would at least know why they had to die. If you can handle torture and a rifle, then surely you should be able to handle these questions easily enough.
I understand you were tortured, and used as Vietcong propaganda for years, but, believe me when I say Sir, that you gave up info to 'the enemy' is completely forgivable. They tortured you. They tortured you because you were sent from all the way around the world, to kill them.
Can you please tell us again why it was you were supposed to be killing them? Because honestly, none of our history books have yet to give a full and rational explanation, and no living person seems to know either. I thought you would, since you speak of it so often.
Now, perhaps I should go ask John Kerry these questions, because he was there as well, also helping to kill these people. And by all accounts, he killed many of them, and, like you, was awarded numerous medals for the whole experience of going over there to kill them for reasons that are still unclear. I would Like Mr. Kerry to know I would welcome his input as well, providing he can actually answer the questions and not divert and dodge behind taboos and pretend I am the offensive one for even asking.
It could be that I am offensive for even asking, but the truth is, I have never killed anyone, nor participated in a mass killing for reasons that can not be understood. You can claim to be the reason I am allowed the freedom to ask , but you will have to prove immediately after doing so that the Vietnamese were capable of taking away such freedoms from me in the first place.
You could question my patriotism, as so many will, instead of answering the questions, but, I have read and understand the United States Constitution so my patriotism is demonstrably stronger than 99.6% of our citizens who have not. In fact, I believe it more patriotic to ask why, then to blindly follow orders and kill people for not one iota of gain or even for a rational reason.
But, for whatever your questions are about my motives, or my ideals, the questions I asked still remain and will remain until someone answers them. What did our nation kill 3 million Vietnamese for? And why exactly did 58,000 of our own die with them?
Tell us why you were willing to kill them. Tell us why they had to be killed. Without lies or talking points, please. Did I mention it must be rational answers, or else they will not be considered answers?
The ones who came after Vietnam have been constantly put off with so many excuses and false spins on Vietnam, the shame of it has become a total joke to those of us whom were supposed to inherit it without question. What the prior generations involved did not ever consider is that anyone born after Vietnam has not one single reason to continue the lies and lame justifications that have been presented in place of actual answers. We are not responsible for the lies began before our births. The ones involved in them are responsible, even now, to this day.
If you can answer these questions, please do. Finally bring to us an understanding of what it is that you are so celebrated for. Make us understand what was so worth being willing to kill or die for. Let us examine the reasons now, before another generation is forced to inherit the confusion and shame of so many unanswered questions.
With Respect
C. Cole
P. S. While you are at it, can you also finally answer the question of weather or not Vietnam was in fact one giant 'war crime' ? Because other countries constantly refer to it as a US war crime, even now, 30 years later.
Christy said:
Sparrows email exchange with me, to better understand why I wrote this.
Sparrow:...The only other comment I have you might take the wrong way. The comment where you want john Kerry to answer...I am only saying that because he was part of Winter's Soldier; he was a war protester back then; he testified before congress (giving the military soldier's anti-war message), and he was attacked by Nixon back then and all the swiftboat liars too. So in my opinion, the portion about kerry would be better stated as sort of what I said above or left out all together.
Christy:
No, I understand what you are saying about Kerry, and I seriously thought about it before adding him, but this is why I did.
To me, John Kerry 'lost' for two reasons, one vote rigging, and two, he could never effectively counter his military record smears because of this very taboo. It is not really his fault but... then again it is.
Even though Kerry was a 'Winter Soldier' even to this day Kerry can not stand up and say ' Vietnam was a war crime, one in which I participated in and was awarded numerous medals for.'
Kerry can never ever be TOTALLY HONEST about Vietnam, because it will be the death of him politically. The reason it will be the death of him is because NO ONE wants to hear the truth. Even as they allude to the facts, they still refuse to put it into proper context. Even those who were not personally involved not responsible will still react to the kneejerk response which is EXACTLY what those responsible want. It keeps them shielded from accountability.
And this is the exact mechanic of the taboo that MUST be broken. This is the exact reason he could never effectively counter the Swiftboaters. And, for all that I think is heroic about John Kerry, his actual 'hero status' is based on his participation in what everyone knows in their hearts was a war crime.
No one with a brain would say 'I'm a war criminal. Vote for me!' so instead they turn criminals into 'heros' and we are all supposed to just go along with it. Like with mcmumbles, to question it is to question not his actual experience, but your own gratitude, your own patriotism, and your own morality.
Frankly I am so sick of the stigma of Vietnam, I really don't care if they are offended. I am offended at what they did in my name and expect me not to talk about. AND I am offended every time someone from another country throws Vietnam in my face to try to and question my nations moral standing. Even to this day, they did the crime, we do the time and that is what to me is offensive.
Leaving 3 million dead for no reason is offensive, I really do not care if mccrazy, John Kerry, or anyone else is outraged at my outrage.
If this crap had been dealt with THEN, it would not still be a problem now 30 years later.
Anyways, that is why I included him. Because it is not really right to put it all on a republican or all on mccrazy. It was all of them, all of us, all of our families. And it is a conversation that is AT LEAST 30 years overdue.
Hugs.C
BTW, the point of this whole article is not really about taking personal responsibility on the part of the soldiers who were used to do the deed. The point is to break the taboo.
The exact same taboo is happening with Iraq. If you don't say 'I Support the Troops' you must be a traitor, so you will say it even knowing fully well that what is happening is a WAR CRIME from the first lie he told.
I do not consider soldiers to be 'war criminals' except in cases were guilt is undeniable. It is the ones giving the orders that are criminal and should be hanged.
However, I was taught from infancy that our soldiers are taught to refuse immoral or illegal orders. Yet how many of them ever actually refuse? They fall in line lest they too are attacked over this same taboo.
If you don't commit this war crime, you must not love Our country.
This MUST NOT be what my kids inherit. I won't let them be used in such a way.
The taboo MUST BE broken. If it is not, then we will have an illegal war every generation until every generation is constantly at war.
The ones depending on the taboo to hold are the ones responsible. They are making money off our blood.
We must stop them, and the best way to do it is break the code words they are using.
If you do post it, it may actually be helpful to post the relevent parts of this email exchange as well to further understand the nature of this discussion.
C
Kangaroo Said:
Vietnam Veterans against MCCain
Excellent Conversation Christy, because today we are living with all Georgie and his Administrations War Crimes. All based, not on fact, but based on lies.
Iraq
Number Of Iraqis Slaughtered In US War And Occupation Of Iraq "1,255,026"
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Number of U.S. Military Personnel Sacrificed (Officially acknowledged) In U.S. War And Occupation Of Iraq 4,150
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Cost of U.S. War and Occupation of Iraq
$549,806,567,171For more details, click here. Lie by Lie: The Mother Jones Iraq War Timeline (8/1/90 - 2/14/08) In this timeline, we've assembled the history of the Iraq War to create a resource we hope will help resolve open questions of the Bush era. What did our leaders know and when did they know it? And, perhaps just as important, what red flags did we miss, and how could we have missed them? This is the third installment of the timeline, with a focus on Abu Ghraib, Guantanamo, and torture in a time of terror.http://www.motherjones.com/bush_war_timeline/
Iraq
Number Of Iraqis Slaughtered In US War And Occupation Of Iraq "1,255,026"
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Number of U.S. Military Personnel Sacrificed (Officially acknowledged) In U.S. War And Occupation Of Iraq 4,150
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Cost of U.S. War and Occupation of Iraq
$549,806,567,171For more details, click here. Lie by Lie: The Mother Jones Iraq War Timeline (8/1/90 - 2/14/08) In this timeline, we've assembled the history of the Iraq War to create a resource we hope will help resolve open questions of the Bush era. What did our leaders know and when did they know it? And, perhaps just as important, what red flags did we miss, and how could we have missed them? This is the third installment of the timeline, with a focus on Abu Ghraib, Guantanamo, and torture in a time of terror.http://www.motherjones.com/bush_war_timeline/
posted by Kangaroo Brisbane Australia at 3:01 PM
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